Congressman Mike Lawler (R-NY) joined me this morning to discuss the deadlock within the GOP Caucus caused by a dozen or so ultra-conservatives, led by Florida’s Matt Gaetz, North Carolina’s Dan Bishop and Montana’s Matt Rosendale. Lawler is seeking allies to join with Democrats to use a discharge petition to bring the Democrats’ “clean CR” to the floor where it will pass easily, but striped of all conservative provisions of the GOP version. The hard-right members have made the mistake of making the perfect (in their eyes) the enemy of the good, and their kicking -on-the-floor fit is about to hand the Democrats a huge win:

Audio:

09-22hhs-lawler

Transcript:

HH: Sources on Capitol Hill, I might stop the broadcast early in the morning. But I keep working the Hill and calling people on the phone to find out what’s going on inside the House GOP caucus. And sources told me Mike Lawler, freshman extraordinaire, representing New York’s 17th Congressional District, had gotten together enough moderate Republicans to sign a discharge petition in response to the blockade on the budget brought about by Matt Gaetz, Matt Rosendale, Dan Bishop, and a handful of others. So I tracked down Congressman Lawler, and he agreed to come on with me this morning. Good morning, Congressman. Nice to meet you in person.

ML: You as well, Hugh. Thanks for having me.

HH: Before we dive into the details of the caucus, can we get your bio, because you’re new to most of my audience. I’m not even allowed, I don’t know if Governor Hochul allows me to be broadcast in New York, but tell us about you.

ML: Yeah, born and raised in New York. I live just outside New York City. My district is the 17th Congressional District. It’s home of Bill and Hillary Clinton and George Soros. So fitting that they have a Republican Congressman these days, but I was executive director of the state Republican party, got my start as an intern for John McCain going back 2008 on his presidential campaign, served one term in the state assembly before running for Congress last year.

HH: I had heard great things about you from Ed Cox for years, and so I know you know what you’re doing politically. It’s a difficult district. You brought part of the majority in. You’ve got to hang onto it now. I’m sure you’re fighting every day. By the way, what’s your website, your campaign website?

ML: www.lawlerforCongress.com.

HH: Lawler the number or the letter, number 4 Congress?

ML: For Congress.co

HH: For, www.lawlerforcongress.com. Okay, Congressman, what is going on? Everybody knows about Matt Gaetz, Matt Rosendale and Dan Bishop who listen to this show. They’re the knucklehead caucus, and they’re stopping everything. What is your response?

ML: Well, I think obviously, I understand their concerns about spending. It’s part of the reason I ran for Congress. You know, I voted against New York’s disastrous budgets as a member of the state legislature. We absolutely need to rein in spending. But we only control one half of one-third of the government. And when you don’t control the Senate, and you don’t control the White House, there’s a reality that we have to deal with. We still have to govern. The American people did elect us to serve as a check and balance on the Biden agenda, the $5 trillion in new spending, and we want to rein that in. But we can’t rein that in if we can’t pass legislation through the House. And every day that passes, we are giving Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden a stronger hand. This is a disastrous economy. Obviously, the Southern Border is a complete mess. We’re feeling the impacts of that in New York. And Chuck Schumer has a real crisis. And so Kevin McCarthy brough to the conference with the help of Byron Donalds and Chip Roy and Scott Perry and Dusty Johnson, Stephanie Bice, and Kelly Armstrong a conservative CR that would extend government funding for 30 days while reducing it by 8% and pass HR 2 again, and move it over to the Senate so that we could negotiate on something to actually attack the border while reducing spending. These folks said no. They refused, because in some bizarro land that they live in, no, we don’t need to fund the government in the short term. We can shut it down, and that’ll strengthen our hand, even though we only control one-half of one-third. So it really makes no sense. They now are demanding that we pass four appropriations bills at once, and then maybe start handling a few others, and then maybe handle a few others after that, and then maybe they would consider a CR. I didn’t come here to shut the government down or play stupid games so we could raise $5 dollar donations by claiming we’re doing something and sticking it to the administration, when in fact all they would be doing is screwing the American people. You’re not saving money in a shutdown. In fact, it’s going to cost more money in a shutdown. And at the end of the day, they’re weakening our hand and the Speaker’s hand to negotiate.

HH: I don’t think they’ve ever played cards in their life. And I don’t think they know what the first mover advantage is. If you put the Republican Congressional resolution with the reductions and the border security in it over on the desk of the Senate, then it has to come back to conference, and that’s when the knives come out and you have to get to yes. But then, it’s an equally born burden. They don’t care, because I think you nailed it. They want their name in the paper, because it generates clicks to get them $5 and $10 dollar donations by people who don’t know any better that they’re gumming up the works. Leader McCarthy, I know you voted for Speaker McCarthy when he was Leader McCarthy, became Speaker McCarthy. It’s the same 15 people. Now, it’s down to the same 5 people. There really is no negotiating with them. So I think the only way to negotiate with them is to threaten the discharge petition. Would you tell us what that is and whether or not you’ve got the votes to bring that forward?

ML: Yeah, I’ve sat through hours of meetings and negotiations with these folks over the last 72 hours. And they continually move the goalposts. As I’ve said, they don’t know how to take yes for an answer. They don’t know how to define a win. They don’t know how to work as a team. And so ultimately, we’re left in a position where responsible people need to be the adults in the room. There are at least five of us, which is all that is needed, to sign a discharge petition, which would allow a bill to come to the floor for a vote. The Democrats have 213 signatures on a previously signed discharge during the debt ceiling negotiations. It’s still live and active. And so if five of us sign it, it would begin the clock on ripening the discharge and allow a bill to come forward. The question is what would that bill be? I am part of the Problem Solvers Caucus, 32 Republicans, 32 Democrats. We have been working on a framework that would be the basis for a bipartisan CR that would extend government funding for three months while we work through the appropriations process. It would provide Ukraine funding. It would provide disaster relief. And it would have Remain In Mexico policies implemented as part of the agreement. And so that is something that I think as we’re dealing with this border crisis, is critically important that we get a win on the border. And my colleagues had an opportunity here with the CR that the Speaker put forth, and rejected it because they don’t want to vote for a CR. It’s illogical, and it weakens our hand at the negotiating table.

HH: Congressman, may I, my theory is they don’t want to vote for anything Kevin McCarthy’s doing, because they hate Kevin McCarthy because for whatever reason, Kevin McCarthy can get stuff done. And this is a personal vendetta by five guys. Ken Buck was not, Ken Buck didn’t know what he was doing. He’s getting ready to sign a CNN contract and go out the door. You’ve lost the guy from Utah who had to retire because of family issues. So you’re down a couple of votes. Will you have people stand up and put their names next to Mike Lawler’s names publicly to increase the pressure on the five?

ML: I think we’re getting there. You know, people like Don Bacon, Brian Fitzpatrick, I’m not going to speak for anybody, but the reality is we need to govern, and we need to ensure that the American people are not hurt by these games. I called it a clown show the other day, because that’s precisely what it is. They, the American people gave us the opportunity to be in the majority to get things done. You can’t get things done if you can’t work as a conference and as a team to pass legislation. And if these folks are unwilling to compromise within the conference, before we even get to the Democrats, if they’re unwilling to compromise within the conference all because they don’t like Kevin McCarthy, it’s a joke. And I think it’s time for all of my colleagues within the conference to really push back on these folks and expose them for the hypocrisy and the absurdity of what they’re doing, because they’re not helping the American people. They’re not advancing the conservative movement.

HH: Congressman Lawler, you’ve got to clue me in on what the dynamic in the room is, because Matt Rosendale and Dan Bishop want to run for statewide office. They’re dead, dead on arrival now. There is no way they’re going to win, because there are too many center-right Republicans, conservative Republicans who believe in winning incrementally and going mile by mile. Matt Gaetz is in a safe district. He’s just, he’s living on Mars. Only Donald Trump can get him to move. And the Former President is going to realize very soon if they don’t get anything through, they’re going to lose the House and he’s going to get impeached again, even if he wins reelection if we lose the House. It’s crazy for Donald Trump for them to be doing this. But when they stand up, do they make a lick of sense? Do people boo them? What’s it like in the room, because it’s just idiocy.

ML: Well, I compared it to Festivus, you know? It was an airing of the grievances the other day listening to some of the diatribes coming out. But again, it’s just, it’s people refusing to get to yes. And not all of them. Some of them, you know, they have legitimate arguments. They want to get through the appropriations process. They want to get to as low of a number as possible. I understand that. But you have to find compromise within the conference, because we need 218, and we only have a four-seat majority right now with Chris Stewart’s resignation. So if you can’t find compromise within the conference, and you’re unwilling to move on appropriations bills, pass the rule, or move on a CR, all you’re doing is handing it to Chuck Schumer to jam us. And it’s foolish. It’s really foolish.

HH: Am I correct that…

ML: And you know, I call it Munchausen at work. I mean, these people create the problem, blame others, and then pretend that they’re solving it. And then they keep doing it over and over and over.

HH: Then they raise money. But I follow Chip Roy on this as being sort of a very steady North Star of the serious hard core fiscal conservatives. Chip Roy wanted to move the Defense bill, did he not?

ML: Absolutely.

HH: And did every veteran in the House want to move…

ML: Chip was an honest broker in this. Byron Donalds, honest broker in this. They understand that at the end of the day, we still have to move something through the House if we’re going to be in a position to negotiate. It’s the same thing as the debt ceiling. The reason we were able to jam Schumer is because we passed something off the House floor. Chuck Schumer didn’t think we could do it. And once we did it, Schumer didn’t have the votes to do anything in the Senate, and so Kevin McCarthy was able to negotiate with the President. And these people turned what was a big win into a loss simply because Kevin McCarthy was able to get something done.

HH: Last quick question. You know, I’ve known Leader McCarthy/Speaker McCarthy for 30 years. I think he’s fabulous in this job. What’s your assessment one year in?

ML: I think he’s done a phenomenal job. He’s got, you know, the patience of Job dealing with these folks. But he’s the strong leader, and he’s fighting for the conference every day to put us in the best position to serve the American people and do the job we were elected to do.

HH: Great to meet you, Congressman Lawler. Keep coming back. For a New Yorker, we didn’t talk about the Yankees or the Jets, so that’s a good thing. We’ll talk about that next time. Thank you for joining me.

End of interview.