Former Vice President Mike Pence joined me this morning:

Audio:

09-07hhs-pence

Transcript:

HH: Joined by former Vice President Mike Pence. Good morning, Mr. Vice President. Welcome back to the Hugh Hewitt Show.

MP: Good morning, Hugh. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me on.

HH: Well, I’m sorry I stepped on your big story yesterday with the interview with Donald Trump. You gave an important speech on conservatism and populism, so I’d like to have you at least recap for people the core message that you delivered yesterday.

MP: You bet. Look, I’m running for president of the United States, because I think this country is in a lot of trouble. I think Joe Biden has weakened America at home and abroad. And I think the choice that we face in the Republican Party is not just who will be our standard bearer, but what we will stand for. You’ve known me a long time, Hugh. You know, I’m somebody that has long believed in that conservative agenda, you know, really first brought to the White House by Ronald Reagan, a commitment to a strong national defense, American leadership in the world, fiscal responsibility and reform, the right to life and values. But I believe that both my former running mate and many of his imitators in this Republican primary are now giving voice to a new Republican populism that would walk away from American leadership on the world stage, literally ignore our national debt crisis, and wants to marginalize the right to life to be a states only issue. And I, for my part, want people to know that I’m going to stand strong on that broad-based conservative agenda. And when people look at my record, not just as vice president in an administration that did govern as a conservative administration, but also my years as a conservative governor and as a leading House conservative for 12 years in the Congress. People will see that I’m the most proven, the most tested, the most qualified conservative in this race, and I believe that staying true to that common sense agenda that has defined our movement and our party over the last 50 years is not just a pathway to victory, Hugh. But I also believe it’s the pathway toward restoring America’s strength and prosperity.

HH: Now Mr. Vice President, this is a bit of a tortoise and a hare race with Vivek playing the hare. And you are the tortoise with the Constitution on his back, and I’m glad. You and I have not actually changed much in 25 years. We’re saying the same things we said. And is it going to work, though? Is there enough time for that to work, and to appeal to the distant echoes of the Reaganaut conservatives, which a lot of young people just don’t believe in anymore?

MP: Yeah, well look, Ronald Reagan left the White House four decades ago. He left this Earth three decades ago. But people that say that these timeless principles that predated Reagan…you know, Reagan was the first one to say that, he said people call me the great communicator, but I actually just communicated great things that came from the heart of a great nation. I mean, this is, these are principles that you articulate every day on the airwaves across the country, Hugh, that really go to the very heart of the American founding, the Constitution, and to all the things that have always made America strong and true. I’m convinced that the majority of Republicans, independents, and many Democrats want to see us continue to be the leader of the free world with a strong military willing to stand with our allies, stand up to our enemies. And the majority of Americans know we’ve got to confront this debt crisis. Look, Joe Biden’s policy is insolvency. He won’t even talk about the massive debt crisis being driven by entitlements in this country. And frankly, the former President’s position and many in the Republican field also are walking away from a commitment of fiscal responsibility and reform. So to me, that’s the choice that we have. It’s not between personalities. Look, there are good men and a good woman that are standing in this race so far, and I have differences and have had differences with them in the past and today. But this is really about the country. It’s really about the direction of our party. And I think this choice between whether we’re going to stay true to that time-honored conservative agenda or whether we’re going to follow the siren song of populism unmoored to conservative principles is really why yesterday in New Hampshire, I said we come to a Republican time for choosing.

HH: Now Mr. Vice President, I said to the former President yesterday, I said to Governor Christie earlier today, the big great white shark issue below the waves, the Jaws issue, is what happened in COVID.

MP: Sure.

HH: And I asked the former President why was Dr. Fauci the decider-in-chief, and he said he wasn’t. And Chris Christie said what he saw, he was. You were there.

MP: Yeah.

HH: Why was Tony Fauci in charge of so much for so long?

MP: Well, look, you know, the former President assembled a taskforce early in 2020, the end of February. I mean, he had added health experts, including Dr. Fauci, to the team. In late February, he asked me to lead the taskforce as it became more clear that we were headed into not only the worst pandemic in America in a hundred years, but a global pandemic. And I will tell you in the early days, I felt like Dr. Fauci stayed in his lane. When I became the leader of the COVID taskforce, I actually added Larry Kudlow, and I added the Treasury Secretary, Steven Mnuchin, to the taskforce, because I knew that whatever temporary steps we would need to take to marshal the kind of supplies that our health care workers and hospitals would need, that the most important thing is that we would be able to open up America and get the economy moving again. But you know, frankly, I think when Joe Biden emerged as the Democratic candidate, when he began to kind of lift Dr. Fauci up and say that he was going to turn things over to Dr. Fauci, I felt that his, I felt that Fauci’s public posture changed. And no surprise that when Biden came in, he turned everything over to Fauci. And next thing you knew, we had vaccine mandates being imposed on the American people, which never would have happened under our team. Look, China was responsible for the COVID pandemic. Schools should have never been closed. Vaccines should have never been mandated. But he was part of that taskforce that President Trump assembled early on. But I think the way Joe Biden demagogued the issue of the pandemic, and promised with Fauci in charge, ended up changing his posture and his tone as time went on.

HH: Now Mr. Vice President, I don’t want to call anyone on the air a liar or a deceiver. But Dr. Fauci actively misled me on gain of function research. I mean, actively misled me as he did the American people on masks. Do you believe he misled you during his time as an advisor to the panel on which you chaired the response?

MP: You know, I just will never understand. I sat at the end of that table in the Situation Room every single day with the taskforce, and I lost count on the number of times that Dr. Fauci insisted to me that it could not have come from a Chinese lab, even though the head of the CDC, a virologist with his background, sat at the end of the table and shook his head and said no, it came from a lab. I mean, I wrote about that in my book. And you know, all that what’s come out about taxpayer dollars flowing into gain of function research, that’s very troubling to me. But I will tell you, I’m convinced today that the COVID pandemic came from that Chinese lab in Wuhan. China needs to be held accountable for that in the days ahead. If I’m president of the United States, we’re going to hold them accountable for the impact on our nation. But I still, I don’t understand why all throughout that time at that table in the taskforce in the Situation Room, Dr. Fauci just insisted it could not have come from the lab when it appears now that it came from no other place.

HH: Now Mr. Vice President, I want to talk about China, and you raised it just timely. Yesterday, I asked the former President about an article that came out yesterday at the summer gathering of the elders of China, which happens every year, it was reported…

MP: Right.

HH: …that the elders rebuked Xi Jinping for his style of leadership. Former President Trump said on the show yesterday they’ll all be executed by the end of this week. What do you think is going on over there? And how ought we to respond to China’s many aggressive actions everywhere?

MP: Well, look. I’ve met President Xi, represented our country at international conferences where he and I both spoke. I gave a very, very tough speech on China at the very same conference the afternoon he gave a tough speech pushing back on an unnamed country that they had made it clear they were going to continue to challenge economically, meaning us. Look, China only understands strength, and only understands power. And the fact that Joe Biden has literally been working to cut military spending since he came into office, and in fact, you look at that recent debt ceiling deal, frankly, if they don’t get all their 13 bills done, we’ll have a 1% cut in Defense spending in 2025. It’s unconscionable at a time that China’s literally floating a new battleship in the Asia Pacific every month. So you know, what I’m saying is we’ve got to do two things. We’ve got to, it’s not about rebuilding the military anymore, Hugh. We’ve got to build a military fitted to the challenges in the 21st Century. That means a 350-ship Navy. That means leaning into an effort. That means ending political correctness at the Pentagon. Second thing we’ve got to do is build on what we began to do in the Trump-Pence administration, which is limit access to our economy to China, just like we put those tariffs on, $250 billion, until they end their military provocations, end the trade abuses, intellectual property theft. We brought them to the table, if you remember, that Phase 1 trade deal in early 2020. I mean, they were at that table at lightning speed. So they understand when we use the economic power of the United States, when we make a commitment to a strong national defense, I believe that we can keep moving both President Xi and Communist China in the direction of our interests and not theirs. But weakness arouses evil, and President Joe Biden is projecting weakness on the world stage. And I believe that’s the reason why we’re continuing to see China engage in a kind of military provocation and aggressive behavior that they’ve engaged in, in recent months.

HH: Mr. Vice President, last question. I saw at the, on ABC this weekend, Governor Christie saying there will be a third debate in Tuscaloosa. I think there will be 12 debates. I want them to evolve so that it’s more about Biden and less about each other. How would you improve the rule set to make the debate more meaningful for people who are on the fence between candidates on the Republican side, and whether or not they’re going to support the Republican nominee versus the Democratic nominee?

MP: Well, the first thing I’d do is get Hugh Hewitt at the table.

HH: Well, thank you, but…

MP: Honestly, you’ve done a great job at those presidential debates, and I’m not trying to flatter you. I’m very serious. Look, I was very, you know, I was honored to be on that stage. We’re looking forward in three weeks to being at the Reagan Library. But my hope is with Fox Business hosting the next debate is that we talk more about the economy. I mean, look, the American people are not buying Bidenomics. Bidenomics is failing people of this country. I know that Democrats are getting ready to run a big national TV campaign telling people things are great. They’re not. I mean, inflation last year was at a 40-year high. Mortgage rates, 22-year high. I mean, we’ve got to get to solutions, and that’ll be what I’m driving for, the solutions Republicans offer to get this economy moving and secure our country again.

HH: Very quickly, Mr. Vice President, what’s your website?

MP: www.mikepence2024.com. Thanks, Hugh. Great to be with you.

HH: www.mikepence2024.com. Thank you, Mr. Vice President.

End of interview.