Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie Responds To Former President Trump
Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie joined me this morning:
Audio:
Transcript:
HH: Former President Trump yesterday talking about my next guest, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Governor Christie, he ran you over with a car yesterday, backed it up, ran you over a couple more times. You’re used to that. Any reactions to yesterday’s interview?
CC: Look, Hugh, if it wasn’t so disturbing that someone like him is actually running for president, you know, I would just feel badly for him. I mean, you know, this is a guy who offered me secretary of Homeland Security twice, who offered me secretary of Labor, who offered me White House chief of staff in December of 2018, all four of those jobs I turned down. He made me chairman of his transition in 2016 and prepared the entire transition from May of ’16 through the election. He made me chairman of his opioid and drug abuse commission, and then adopted every one of the recommendations of the commission that I chaired. He asked me to prepare him for the debate against Hillary Clinton in 2016, and I did so. He asked me to prepare him for the debate in 2020 against Joe Biden, and I did so. I would assume you wouldn’t ask someone to do all those things if you really thought they were not very smart and deeply disturbed. So you know, this is a guy who makes things up as he goes along, and I’ll tell you, is obviously under an extraordinary amount of pressure, given what he’s done, what his conduct has been, and the ramifications of that conduct. So you know, I’m concerned for him, because I think he must not be doing well to say the things he said yesterday, but I think anybody who looks at what his objective actions have been over the course of his relationship with me, and what he said yesterday, they know what he was saying yesterday is just so odd and disturbing that it should make everybody question whether this guy really has the psychological capacity to be a candidate for president, let alone president again.
HH: All right, Governor, before we get to the specifics of the race, and I want to spend most of my time there. I’m in Switzerland. I’m just watching all the troops deploy, and I’ve seen this movie before, and we’ll talk about that in a second. But he said he would testify. He also said that most of the indictments against him will be dismissed. I have no opinions on this. I just ask the questions. A) will most of the indictments against him be dismissed? B) should he testify? And C) am I right that the obstruction of justices charge is the submarine aimed below water midships?
CC: On the first question, I do not believe that most of the indictments will be dismissed. In fact, I doubt that any of them would be dismissed. As I said before, Hugh, I think both the New York indictment and the Atlanta indictment were unnecessary. And I would not have authorized those if I was the person in charge of either of those offices. But I don’t think they’ll be, I don’t think that they’re legally deficient. You know, secondly, will he testify on his own behalf, look, that’s always a client’s choice, as you know. And it’s going to be ultimately his choice. But I can’t imagine any lawyer in their right mind after watching the way he performs would ever put him on the stand and expect it to be anything other than an abject disaster for the determination of guilt or innocence. And third, the obstruction charge has always been the most serious charge, which is why I believe on your program when those charges came out, I said I would not have charged the classified documents portion of the case. I would have only charged the obstruction, because I think it’s the strongest part of the case and the one that could get to trial most efficiently.
HH: Now when he said he can do anything, that was his response to me when I asked him if he directed anyone to move the boxes. He said I’m not going to answer that, but I can do anything under the Presidential Records Act. I don’t believe that’s correct, but I don’t argue with my guests. What do you think about that?
CC: It’s absolutely absurd. First of all, the documents we’re discussing aren’t covered by the Presidential Records Act. They’re just not. They’re classified documents which are to be handled differently. And the idea that he can do whatever he wanted, look, he had an opportunity, and this part I agree with, while he was president, to declassify whatever he wanted to declassify. Bu the didn’t do it. And the idea that he could do it by kind of mind melding with the documents either while he was president or after is so absurd that that claim will be laughed out of court. So the Presidential Records Act does not cover what he’s talking about, and that’s why, you know, I’m sure that’s why Jack Smith charged those things. I’m just saying as a strategic matter, I wouldn’t have charged them, because the obstruction case appears to be so incredibly strong. I mean, when you look at the voice memos of his attorney that are in the possession of the government, those voice memos alone and testimony that you have to assume will be consistent with it, with those memos, are so devastating that you know, if it were in a civil matter, a judge could almost direct a verdict of obstruction.
HH: Well, let me ask you, though. Would you have picked Jack Smith for this? Jack Smith has lost at the Supreme Court unanimously for making up charges against Bob McDonnell. He does seem to be an American Javert. He does not come across well in his brief efforts to explain himself on TV. Would you have picked him to be the special counsel for this, because I think all the D.C. charges are absolutely Constitutionally barred.
CC: Well, look, I don’t, you know, Hugh, I don’t know Jack Smith all that well, so it’s tough for me to evaluate his entire career. But what I would say to you is I think there were a lot of people available to the Justice Department to select who didn’t have some of the history that Jack Smith had, and given the level of scrutiny that will be on this case. I would have wanted someone with a background that had, you know, none of the history you just referenced.
HH: All right, let’s go to the campaign, because I have seen this movie before from four feet away. And the former President loves a crowd on the stage. And unless the rest of you get together and draw lots, he’s going to be the nominee. If you all stay in through Super Tuesday, you know, the winner-take-all rules in California guarantee he will be the nominee. Is that going to happen?
CC: You know, we’re going to have to see how the campaign progresses, Hugh. You know, we’re in the first week of September. I’m in the race for three months. I think the idea that any of us at this moment who are doing some impressive things on the campaign trail should drop out is kind of ridiculous. I mean, look, the last New Hampshire poll has me at 14%, clearly in second place, and 20 points behind Trump, but Trump at only 34%. You know, I don’t see any incentive for me to drop out at the moment at all. So…
HH: I don’t think you should, but I absolutely do not see why Governor Hutchinson is still in this. I do not understand Governor Burgum. They, and actually, I don’t understand Vivek. You started to rip into Vivek, but Vivek can be interesting. He’s a great interview. I hope he comes back. Did you make your point with Vivek in the last debate?
CC: I think I did, but you know, look. It wasn’t my intent to go in and make points in Vivek. But when he gets up on the stage and he says some of the patently absurd stuff that he said, and the absurd stuff he said on your program, you know, I can’t sit there and be silent, and won’t. But I think I made the points pretty clearly on Ukraine, on Taiwan. You know, and I think Nikki made her point very well on Israel. So I think we’ve made our points on him, and I think he’s someone who seems to be running more for auditioning for Donald Trump’s vice president than he is to really be president. When you get on the stage and say he’s the greatest president of the 21st Century, but at 38 years old, I’m running against him because I’d be better, I don’t know what to make of that.
HH: Yeah, it’s Pete Buttigieg. I’ve got to go back to the third debate. You said on ABC this past weekend that it’s going to be in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I checked with the RNC. That’s not official. But if it does go down there, that is Trump country. And I want to begin by asking you about Senator Tuberville’s hold on more than 300 colonels, captains and general officer promotions. It is a disaster for the American military. I’m on the record about that. Nikki Haley agrees with me. Former President Trump and Governor DeSantis agree with Senator Tuberville. What does Chris Christie think?
CC: I’ve said this already publicly. I disagree with what Senator Tuberville is doing. He has every right to make the points he’s making regarding Pentagon policy, but he should not do it by impairing the readiness of our military, which is what I think he’s doing.
HH: All right, now let’s go to the debates beyond if there is one in Alabama, the third debate. I believe there are 12 going to happen. Do you think there are going to be 12? And do you think the RNC is going to follow through on that?
CC: I do. Every indication I’ve gotten from Ronna Romney McDaniel is that they’ve put a lot of time and effort and thought into the schedule they’ve put together, and that’s what they intend to do, regardless of whether Donald Trump decides to participate, or whether he continues to disrespect Republican primary voters.
HH: All right, now President Biden looks to me to be enfeebled. I used to use the word infirm, but it is becoming quite obvious he cannot be president for five and a half more years. What do you think is going to happen on the Democratic side, Governor Christie?
CC: Look, I think that they’re in a very difficult quandary. I think a majority of the Democratic leadership understands what you just said about President Biden is true. But I think they also don’t want Vice President Harris to be their nominee, because they think she would be a significantly worse candidate than President Biden, but they don’t know how to get themselves out of that fix to pass over the sitting vice president. And so I think they’re in a very tough bind. I don’t think Joe Biden will back out if Donald Trump is our nominee. So…
HH: I agree with that. I’m going to come back with Governor Christie if he can give us some additional time, so don’t go anywhere, America. I’ll talk to him off the air for one question or two, and we’ll post that and play it tomorrow.
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HH: I’m back now with Governor Chris Christie. We will air this tomorrow. Governor, let’s use these three minutes off the air and I’ll play it tomorrow about Dr. Fauci. You heard what the President said yesterday. I was enamored of Dr. Fauci. He came on the show three times, and then I lost my affection for him, because I found out he was lying to me, and he didn’t tell me the truth about gain of function, etc. What was going on? You were there. What was going on with Tony Fauci and Donald Trump?
CC: Look, I mean, I first have to admit that I wasn’t nearly as close to it at that time as I was earlier in the administration in terms of being consulted by the President on these issues. But what I can tell you is he seemed to me to have complete confidence in Dr. Fauci during the time that Fauci worked for him. I think he expressed to me frustration with Fauci from time to time, as he did with almost anybody who didn’t agree with him 100% of the time. But he never expressed to me during that period any sense of doubt or lack of confidence in Dr. Fauci.
HH: Do you think the handling of COVID is the Jaws issue in this primary, not in the general election, but in the primary, because Governor DeSantis, Donald Trump tore into him yesterday on his love of Fauci, and then everyone comes after former President on not firing Fauci. Is it lurking out there in the water for every Republican voter?
CC: Look, I do think that it’s an issue. I don’t, I wouldn’t call it the Jaws issue, though. But I do think it’s an issue, and I think the President has much to answer for regarding his handling of COVID. And I wrote a few op-eds about it at the time. So I didn’t agree with the way the President was handling it completely. There were some things I agreed with, much I disagreed with. But in the end, let’s remember that the person who understood and executed the appropriate handling of COVID first was Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia. And anybody who tries to claim otherwise is just trying to rewrite history. Governor Kemp was the guy who did that first, most aggressively, and most effectively.
HH: Oh, that’s interesting. I didn’t know that. I thought Kristi Noem was. So that’s good to know. Last question before we come back live, Governor. In terms of talking about COVID on the debate stage, the rules don’t allow people to actually talk about, it’s a pandemic. You can’t do it in a minute. Should the rules change to address what happened and what will happen in the future?
CC: Look, I’d love for the rules to change, but for the rules to change, by the way, people on the stage have to adhere to the rules.
HH: True.
CC: And I think that, you know, one of the real problems of the first debate was that a few of the candidates in particular just paid no attention to the rules. Bells were going off frequently. They just kept going. They kept interrupting at times. And look, you know me, Hugh. I am no wallflower.
HH: (laughing)
CC: But the rules, the rules are there so that Republicans can get…
HH: I agree. You know, the worst rule is the right of response, Governor.
CC: Yeah.
HH: I really, I would torpedo that rule. It’s the dumbest rule.
CC: Because you know, they said something about the Trump administration not building the wall, and Vice President Pence said that entitled him to a response. Well, you’re running against President Trump. How does that entitle you to a response?
HH: I just think it’s the dumbest rule, and but nobody asked me. We’ll be right back on the air with Governor Chris Christie. Stay tuned.
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HH: Governor, I want No Labels to prosper. I want them to get out there and raise a lot of money and find a couple of Democrat dummies to run on that and drain votes from Democrats, because I’m a Republican. What do you think about No Labels?
CC: I think it’s a fool’s errand. I really do. And I think that they shoot with a shotgun. They don’t know who they’re going to hurt, and depending on who they nominate, and not something that I would ever care to be involved in.
HH: All right, let me talk to you about the campaign itself. I asked Former President Trump yesterday can you campaign from behind a defense table. He dismissed it as being a non-issue. It is an issue. I mean, I don’t agree with scheduling these trials. I think it’s absurd to have trials in the middle of a campaign, but they’re going to happen. Can someone really campaign for president when they’re a defendant in an ongoing case?
CC: No, of course not. And he’s going to spend all of March and much of April in a D.C. courtroom with his lawyers telling him he can’t speak, and instead of being out on the campaign trail making the case against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. He is absolutely disqualified, practically, from being our nominee. And if he nominate him, we will lose. It’s that simple. Regardless of whether you think the indictments are fair or unfair, or the scheduling of the trials are fair or unfair. They are a reality, and it disqualifies him.
HH: Yeah, that is a reality. So I want to ask the two most important questions. At the first debate, very little time was spent by Republicans talking about Joe Biden. What is the best case against Joe Biden in one minute, Governor Christie?
CC: The best case against Joe Biden is he created the worst inflation in this country since the Jimmy Carter era. He is destroying American livelihoods by having created that. Secondly, his military policy has caused deaths of good American men and women in Afghanistan, caused weakness that allowed the Putin invasion of Ukraine. Thirdly, he has perverted our educational system in a way that now one-third of our kids cannot read at grade level. It was his policies that have contributed to that problem. And fourth, this is a guy who is simply past his sell-by date. If he ever could function as president, which I doubt that he could have ever done it well, he is clearly physically and mentally incapable of doing the job.
HH: And then that question didn’t get asked, and I would have asked it, even though it’s boring and very predictable. Why do you want to be it. The other boring, predictable but necessary question, why Chris Christie? There are seven people on the stage with one guy offstage who’s got the lead. Why Governor Christie? What are you telling the people in New Hampshire, because you are rising in New Hampshire.
CC: What I’m telling them, Hugh, is that what we need to do first and foremost is defeat Joe Biden. And there’s only one person on that stage, and it is me, who’s defeated a Democratic incumbent. And I did it in a very blue state with being outspent three to one by the former CEO of Goldman-Sachs, and the incumbent governor at the time, Jon Corzine. When we, the last time we defeated a Democratic incumbent president, it was Jimmy Carter. And who defeated him? A conservative Republican governor from a blue state, Ronald Reagan. We first need to win. Second, we need someone who actually knows how to deliver results, not just rhetoric. And I did so in a place with a Democratic legislature for eight years that fought me every step of the way. And I won a majority of those battles, because I knew how to communicate with the people and bring them together in a way that led to a reelection in that blue state with 61% of the vote, 70% of the independent vote, and 58% of the women’s vote against a female candidate. So you need someone who knows how to win, and then knows how to deliver results to ensure an overwhelming reelection. There’s no one else on that stage who’ve ever done it except for me.
HH: Okay, my personal question is always if you have one big swing, because you get the Republican Senate and the Republican House. I would take it at getting the ability back to fire people in the federal government, because we can’t do anything with a permanent administrative state of a million people. What would Chris Christie ask for in that first reconciliation? What’s the big swing?
CC: You know, Hugh, it’s interesting that you gave the answer you just gave. I think it’s incredibly important, because you can’t run a government if you can’t determine personnel. Personnel is policy, especially in a government the size of the United States government, which is the largest government in the world. And so I do think that that recommendation by you is one that I’ve thought has been smart for years, and one that I think would be incredibly, incredibly important in order to empower a president to really change policy through every level of the U.S. government.
HH: Former Governor Christie, thank you. You know, your staff is still not telling me when you’re in New Hampshire. I’m going to be in Ann Arbor this weekend for my 40th law school reunion, so I can’t come down this weekend. But please let me know when you’re there. I’ll drive down and see you in person. I want to watch from the cheap seats.
CC: I will be in New Hampshire Monday and Tuesday the 11th and 12th of September doing a big town hall meeting in Bedford on the 12th.
HH: Oh, count on it. I’m going to be down there.
CC: Great.
HH: Chris Christie, have your team send me something please. I want to be in the cheap seats. I don’t want to be up front. I just want to watch and see how the crowd reacts. Chris Christie, always great to have you on, Governor. Thank you for joining me at my invitation after Donald Trump yesterday.
End of interview.






