Congressman Ro Khanna joined me today to discuss the shutdown, but I began with the two hottest political questions in the world of news, one about whether Jay Jones should drop out and the other about whether former Congresswoman Katie Porter has the temperament to be California’s governor:

Audio:

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Transcript:

HH: It appears as though we’re going to have peace in Gaza by Tuesday of next week. More on that. I begin the show, though, with Congressman Ro Khanna, Democrat from California, one of the Democrats I love to talk to, because he’s smart and he engages. Hello, Congressman. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate you being here.

RK: Hugh, thank you for having me back on. Always enjoy it.

HH: All right. Now I want to get to the shutdown, but before I do, two quick questions, but they’re hard questions. I don’t want to ambush you, but they’re hard questions. Virginia Attorney General Democrat nominee Jay Jones has issued texts, or texts have been revealed in which he suggested the Republican Speaker should have two bullets to the head, maybe even indicated that the children should be killed. Should that man, Jay Jones, drop out of the race?

RK: Well, it’s horrific. There’s no excuse for it. I fully condemn it, and yeah, I mean, I haven’t followed all the details, but if he was actually saying that, I certainly wouldn’t support him.

HH: Thank you for that. Clarity, finally. Secondly, have you seen the videos of your former colleague, Katie Porter, walking out on the CBS reporter in Sacramento, and then exploding at her staff? Have you had a chance to see those, yet?

RK: I have. Look, it wasn’t her finest moment. I view that, I’m sure, Hugh, you view that as different than calling to kill your opponent or their family.

HH: Oh, yes. Very.

RK: You know, it wasn’t her finest moment, but I give people some grace in terms of we don’t judge people on their worst moments. There have been other politicians who have walked out. I haven’t ever done that, certainly would never do it with you, Hugh. And I have differences with Katie Porter, but I try not to be someone who just beats up on folks when their down. So let’s see how she handles it.

HH: So do you think she has the temperament to be governor of the Golden State? There are a lot of Democrats running, like Xavier Becerra, etc. Does Katie Porter have the temperament to run the Golden State?

RK: You know what I would do if I were her? I would try, I would hold an open press meeting, two hours, invite folks, conservative, liberal press, others, apologize for how she acted, explain why he lost it, what the moment was, be transparent and try to regain her trust. But I think she has to prove that she has the temperament. Have we all had bad moments? Yes. But now, she’s got to rebuild that trust. And it certainly, there’s no excuse for not answering basic questions. I mean, that was not a tough question. The first question you asked me was a tougher question than anything she was asked.

HH: Oh, good advice, by the way. Good advice. I hope she listens. Now, let’s get to the policy.

RK: She should come on your show, Hugh. Would you have her on?

HH: I know. She should. She was my Congresswoman. I actually had left California by the time she defeated Mimi Walters, but I would have been a constituent. I’d love to spend an hour with her, and it would be fair. She’s a law professor like I am. We’d have fun. Congressman Khanna, the government is shuttered. I’ve got kids in the military, and they’re officers, and they can handle missing a paycheck. But they have E-1’s and E-2’s that can’t. And I hear about these E-1’s and E-2’s who are living on $2,300 to $2,700 dollars a month. They can’t miss a paycheck. Should the government be reopened?

RK: Yes, but Hugh, maybe you could call on this to happen. Why can’t we vote today on paying the troops? In every other shutdown I’ve had, we have votes in the House and the Senate to pay the troops. The House has been out of session. We’re, we haven’t been here. You know, someone said to me when the government shuts down, the House members should be locked into the complex, and the senators should be locked into the complex until we get a deal. But we should be at least voting on the troops. And you could call today. You could call for the Speaker to convene us today, tomorrow, to have a vote on paying our troops.

HH: And my response is that’s not necessary, because 13 times in the last two years, Democrats and Republicans together passed a continuing resolution for seven weeks to get the appropriations process done. It’s been passed by the House. It’s in the Senate. Democrats are getting killed, politically, for this. So what’s your advice to your colleagues in the Senate? Not in the House. You guys got beaten by the Republican majority that just won election. What should the Senate do given the circumstances right now, and the fact that the House is out?

RK: Well, I disagree with you on the political impact of it. But the, I think people, you know why people don’t blame the Democrats? They see the Democrats are not having enough power in Washington. This is a case where you’ve got Donald Trump was, he’s basically gotten his way, the Senate and the House, and they’re saying just get the government open. And what I’ve said, and I’m consistent on this, Hugh. You may disagree with me on the policy, but I’ve been consistent against the filibuster when Biden was president. I’m consistent now. If you can have an exception to the Senate rules of the filibuster to confirm Trump’s presidential appointees, if you can confirm Trump’s judges with 51 votes, tell me why we shouldn’t have a rule in this country that you can keep government open and have a continuing resolution with 51 votes? Nowhere in the Constitution does it talk about the filibuster.

HH: I’ll tell you why, Congressman. I opposed Harry Reid when he broke the filibuster the first time. I supported Mitch McConnell and John Thune when they used the same option, given the Harry Reid precedent, but that’s about nominees. There’s actually a Constitutional argument, and you know well, you’re a Yale-trained lawyer, that the Senate has an obligation to vote on advice and consent on nominees, and they shouldn’t be blue slipped. Long argument, but it’s different from legislation. This is a clean deal. This is a clean C.R. How many clean C.R.’s have you voted for in your long and distinguished career? 30?

RK: I’m sure I’ve voted for a bunch. I’ve been in Congress nine years. But the point is we should come to a, look, just like there’s a budget reconciliation, why is that not subject to the filibuster? There are exceptions to the filibuster. My guess is if you asked the American people do you think that we should be able to pass a budget to keep government open with 51 senators, or do you think it should require 60 senators, the vast majority of people will say 51 senators. The only people who believe, still, in this filibuster thing are the people who have, are from a different era in the Senate.

HH: Oh, yes. I’m a Madisonian. I’m very much a Madisonian. I want to slow down legislation. But the world is as it is right now. I don’t want the nuclear option right now. No one’s put that on the table in the Senate, because that means expanding the Supreme Court to 14 and adding five Republican justices. Would you like that, Congressman?

RK: I don’t think they’ll do it, because I think the American public won’t let them do it. Look, FDR, as you know, tried to do it. He was one of the most popular presidents of the 20th Century. He couldn’t do it.

HH: Democrats tried to do it.

RK: There’s still the check of…

HH: When you get asked, if you run for president and you get asked to raise your hand if you’re in favor of killing the filibuster, are you going to say yes?

RK: I am. I have been consistently opposed to the filibuster. I think the problem in our politics, and we have a respectful disagreement, is that we’re not doing things fast enough to be able to build things, to be able to help places that were deindustrialized develop, to be able to keep government open, to be getting things done. And to me, the filibuster is one of those tools that has made us dysfunctional.

HH: Aside, do you want to expand the Supreme Court? It’s the end of rule of law if that happens. It’s like a nuclear arms race to third-world status if we expand the Supreme Court. Do you want to do that?

RK: Well, I’ve been for term limits on the Supreme Court. What I have been saying is every president gets two appointees, and you can still be a judge. The Constitution says you can be a judge for life, but you can have senior status or go on a Circuit Court.

HH: Oh, we might agree on this. That’s a Constitutional amendment. We might agree on that, because I don’t like them serving past 75. Let’s go back to the shutdown, though, Congressman. Those E-1’s and E-2’s are not entertained by us talking lawyer talk. They have car payments and kids at home who need food. Should the Senate reopen? That’s the only option between now and missing a paycheck. Should the Senate reopen the government?

RK: We should, and we should just get, either they should just do it with the nuclear option, as you call it, or they should extend the healthcare tax credits so that people’s healthcare premiums don’t go up. Or, what I believe, is let’s just vote to make sure that the troops get paid. I mean, how do you explain? Let me ask you this, because Johnson’s been asked this. Massie and I have 217 signatures on the petition to get the Epstein files released. Adelita Grijalva gets sworn in the day we have votes. She could be sworn in a pro forma session. Johnson doesn’t want to do it.

HH: Congressman, you’re really good, but you’re ordering off the menu. You went to the Italian restaurant and you want Dim Sum. There’s only one thing on the menu, which is opening the government or keeping it closed. What should it be?

RK: Well, yeah, but this is a fallacy of the excluded middle. You can’t just give someone two options. You know this from your law school days, but obviously, to keep the government open. But the best option would be let’s vote on paying the troops. But tell me this Epstein thing. You know, I don’t know where you are on it, but why don’t we just get this 218th signature? Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying swear Adelita Grijalva in. Nancy Mace is for a vote on this. Lauren Boebert is. Thomas Massie is.

HH: You may be shocked by this, but those three Republicans have not ever been on my show. Ever.

RK: Really?

HH: They are not coming on my show. Ro Khanna’s been on this show about ten times more than those three combined. So you may be shocked by this, I just want to get the government open.

RK: I am shocked by that.

HH: Ro Khanna, it’s always good to talk to you. Thank you for your candor on Jay Jones and Katie Porter, and we’re going to get there on reopening the government, because you guys are going to lose, lose, lose, as long as you don’t pay the troops. That’s just friendly advice to a guy I like. Congressman Ro Khanna from California, thank you.

End of interview.